Salary Survey from The Scientist
Dear Friends of Women in Science,
In the Nov/Dec issue, The Scientist published a salary survey they conducted in spring-early summer, 2011. The data were analyzed on various dimensions, one of which was gender.
They broke out the gender data by education level. For medical doctorates, men averaged 190K and women 140K dollars per annum. For MD/PhDs, men averaged 156K and women 68K. For doctorates in science and engineering, men averaged 99K and women 76K. For bachelors men averaged 73K, women 67K. For masters', men averaged 54K and women 51K.
The authors of the article attributed the huge discrepancy for MD/PhDs to the very low numbers of respondents among females with this degree. It is a self-reported voluntary survey. The trend is not surprising, though. Women simply don't get paid as much for similar levels of training.
Part of the difference may come from the difficulty women have in progressing through the ranks to the top, the glass ceiling effect. A social scientist who compared exact ranks would tend to subtract out such a difference, but it shows that a problem still exists in fair and equal treatment of women in terms of pay equity.
What do you think?
cheers,
Laura
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Hi Christi,
I recall taking the salary survey and it's purely self-selected and voluntary as you suspected. That's how they can get anomalies like the one that probably underlies the strange MD/PhD comparison data for men and women. So, it's not like the carefully collected government data, etc, that you and your coauthor relied on in Why So Few. Its only value is it is more recent. However, I agree that being less reliable is not a super trade-off.
cheers,
Laura
Just one more thing Laura -
I should add that without seeing the details of the survey, it's hard to know how much this data means. If the survey is just online for folks who are interested to take, these numbers may mean very little. If there was an attempt to get a random sample though, the data could mean much more. It's hard to know how much credence to give the numbers without knowing how the survey was conducted. I'm looking forward to seeing the article when it becomes available online.
Thanks again,
Christi
Laura,
This is really interesting and dispiriting data! I'm really surprised by the MD/PhD difference but also by the difference between men and women with master's degrees. I would love to see the details of the survey, but this issue is not on The Scientist website yet. At AAUW we work on pay equity issues quite a bit, and I'm just in the middle of analyzing some data on gender differences in pay for college graduates one year after graduation. Overall, there is about a 20% gap between men and women's pay one year out of college. There continues to be an unexplained pay difference even after controlling for factors known to affect earnings (like major, occupation, selectivity of school, GPA, etc.). Social science researchers generally attribute this unexplained difference to discrimination since discrimination can't be measured directly.
Thanks for sharing this important (and depressing) information.
Christi
It's not possible to tell from the way the data is presented whether women are really being paid less for equal work. Basing a salary on training level, regardless of gender identity should be a given (anything else is illegal, isn't it?) but any additional salary gains. which are based on performance, are subjective -- and therefore hard to judge. As a boss you're going to pay the people you like to work with more than other people. How people like each other is based on ALL KINDS of parameters -- including, unfortunately, how you treat people according to their gender identity. In fact -- it would be a fair test to compare these results with those for homosexuals -- do lesbians get paid more? do gay men get paid less? because the bosses are generally heterosexual men?
Hi Laura,
I hate this, especially since it's about life sciences, where women have made great strides in approaching and sometimes reaching numerical parity. The worst part is the MD/PhD discrepancy. So many years of hard work, and then lower pay? I hope it's an anomaly. I'm depressed, even though I don't care a lot about money. It's being undervalued forever that sounds so bad.
Postdoc cat
Hi Lucia and Melissa,
I think you're both right. There is a problem with promotion and there is no way to see that in the data we got. And like Melissa, I suspect that the data contain the promotion problem and also more pay for men at the same level as women. But the overall message is, women are not getting a fair shake in terms of workplace compensation. It's frustrating.
best,
Laura
Hi Laura,
I don't think we can know from this survey how comparable or not comparable the ranks are of these women. If they are exactly comparable, and this discrepancy exists, then there is clearly a big problem. So I have to reserve judgement. I would guess that the rank issue is only a part of the problem, just going from government (DOL) data.
MKS
Hi Laura,
I look at the data on full professors whenever it comes out, and the presidents of biotech companies, and women just don't get a fair shake in being promoted. So how can I say the pay difference is fair? It would only be fair if women had an equal chance to be in these highly paid top ranks.
LP
