Post doc week
Hi friends,
It's national postdoc week and I wonder if you have any thoughts about postdocs and how they function today as women in science. A few years ago when I was on the NSF Biology Advisory Committee, I remember we discussed the period of the postdoctoral study was getting much longer, and began to create some independent grants for which postdocs would be eligible. I wonder if these are up and running, and if so, how do people like them? I believe this method is much more common in Europe than in the US, but it doesn't always lead to a permanent job in academia or industry as I understand it. I also noticed last year in AWIS, there were some great women postdocs in the LA area who really wanted to go into policy and influence politics/legislation/regulation. I'm excited to see what they will accomplish.
On another level, if any of you have events and celebrations of your postdocs that you particularly like, I'd love to hear about them. And, if you have a good postdoctoral organization at your place, I'd like to know how it works, who's in charge, what kinds of events it runs, etc. Do you think it's woman-friendly in general?
Comment with your insights on today's postdocs...
Or Comment with your postdoctoral organization details.
Speaking as someone who used to work a lot on postdoc issues when I was one, I can't say much has changed period. The expansion of new and existing PhD programs in second and third tier schools is fueling a glut of postdocs in long term positions. What is needed for biology is true reform to slow further production and limit it to the best institutions that produce the highest quality students. We need a return of small science in my opinion. I was discussing this point with our current VP one afternoon when all other conversation had dried up. His response having just come from academe was "how would he get his work done?" And my answer is to ask a question "How many papers/head was he getting from his lab?". If it's <1 per year, then he has too many people there anyway. Focus on a smaller number of people, hire the best and do science really well, and productivity will improve with fewer people. It's what we did in my undergrad and grad labs and it worked very well. Of course he laughed and even winked at me "Well, that's not going to happen, is it?"...Of course not...
I know things are tough in CA, Laura. But in TN, things seem to be looking up, lots of new industry getting started (dare we say as a result of stimulus?) and some are hiring postdocs!
I doubt if you could have convinced those two guys otherwise, Laura. They yearn for the "good old days" when all the women were interns or techs.
Hi Phoebe,
I was in the hall at Caltech the other day and I heard someone say what you suspect. It was something to the effect that there were too many women PhDs out there, so it was "time for a shakeout," which I think means an event that would send them all out of the field. I was infuriated. Didn't know these two men, and they darted into a lecture room where a talk was in progress, so they escaped my half-formed plan to speak to them about it. Argh!
Laura
We are making a tenure-track hire in my department. I have read so many applications from people who have 6-10 years of post-doctoral experience, and frankly the applications are depressing. Six-10 years and still no permanent position based on hard money instead of soft! What does that do to someone's retirement accounts?
Even if we were to hire such a person (which is reasonably likely), there are scores left unhired. I'm so glad that post-docs are organizing and that there are more opportunities than there once were -- I'm in awe of the energy and creativity of these long-time post-docs. But I think that the fact that there are so many could mean that there's something wrong with the system. Naturally, this crisis in opportunities happens to coincide with the rise of the proportion of women with Ph.D.s. Not surprising, but so very typical.
I like the different activities that just get the postdocs together to discuss what we're going through and our ideas for getting out of jail without paying $200 (monopoly joke). It's not just the programs that are good for postdoc societies to put on. We feel voiceless, but it helps to talk together.
Except for biochem, chem didn't have such a strong postdoc tradition before, but we do now and it's choking up just like a backed up freeway. No outlet, so people just stay and stay in these low-paying jobs. I don't like it, because there's no place for the new PhDs to go when the long=term postdocs can't go away and get positions.
Hi R1 Woman,
I know, it would be great if postdocs could solve the shortage of science teachers. I heard things were challenging from one of my students who is doing Teach for America. She ended up having to ask that online donation service to replace an essential piece of her equipment that failed in midyear last year. It worked, but I sure wish schools had the funds to replace important things that break down in mid year. Of course, they don't. They can't even keep their teachers.
cheers,
Laura
A lot of people are worried about the postdocs frozen in place by the bad job market. I don't know what the answer is. I wish I thought K-12 teaching, which chronically needs science teachers, was a viable option. But the couple of students I've known who have tried that have given up because of poor pay, poor protection from being fired in job cuts, and poor equipment/supplies/books for the students.
Our morale is low. People (including us) have started calling us the lost generation. It wouldn't be bad to get a grant but what I really want is to get a real job. Of course, the economy doesn't help!
Hi Blue,
I was afraid that might be true. I've seen some very strong postdoc orgs in the LA area, at Caltech and City of Hope where they consponsored programs with my AWIS branch last year. At an alternative careers session at Caltech, we heard science writers including a cartoonist who writes about PhDs, really cool. I wish I could draw!
Cheers,
Laura
Hi Laura,
I can't say I feel good about job prospects for postdocs right now. The economy is so bad and lots of places just aren't hiring, so we may stay in the pipeline until we give up and go sell shoes. But there is a great postdoc organisation that runs workshops, even ones on alternative careers!
