Ceci and Williams and the comments in response to their study
Hi friends of women in science,
Back on October 31, Ceci and Williams wrote in The New York Times about hiring in math-heavy fields, based on a study they had published in Psychological Sciences In The Public Interest. Their conclusion, presented in the headline the NYT article ran under, was "Academic Science Isn't Sexist." Their finding, perhaps unexpected by many in science or studying scientific gender balance, was that in recent tenure track searches in math-intensive fields at 89 US universities, women were interviewed and hired at rates that were equal to or higher than their proportions in the applicable pools of potential employees. For example, in physics women were 12% of applicants, 19% of those interviewed, and 20% of those offered the position.
Diane Halpern, Psychologist at the Keck Graduate Institute of Applied Life Sciences and former president of the American Psychological Association, wrote a commentary that was published alongside the paper and commented, "That's really something to celebrate."
Of course, it's not that people dispute the data. It's that those who have encoutered and extensively documented discrimination against STEM women, like Virginia Valian at Hunter College of CCNY don't believe for a minute that the sexism is gone. She argues, as summarized in a commentary by Rachel Bernstein in Science on Novermber 14, 2014, that observational data can make it hard to identify causes and effects. It could easily be the case that there was bias, but women have overcome or chosen to ignore that bias to take their job of interest.
The article in Science also brings up the work of Corinne Moss-Racusin published in PNAS in 2012, that we have discussed here some time ago, showing that both academic women and men assessed candidates with male names higher than candidates with identical records but with female names. It's good evidence that bias, especially unconsious bias, still exists and could negatively affect the careers of young women in STEM fields.
So while it is indeed true that it's good news that women are being hired at rates in excess of their presence in the job pool in math-intensive fields, I can't really accept as legitimate a conclusion that academic science isn't sexist. That eye-catching headline went farther than many believe Ceci and Williams' analysis can legitmately go.
What do you think?
cheers,
Laura
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Laura Hoopes writes that: “Their finding, perhaps unexpected by many in science or studying scientific gender balance, was that in recent tenure track searches in math-intensive fields at 89 US universities, women were interviewed and hired at rates that were equal to or higher than their proportions in the applicable pools of potential employees. For example, in physics women were 12% of applicants, 19% of those interviewed, and 20% of those offered the position.”
This was Finding 3-10 in the 2010 report Gender Differences at Critical Transitions in the Careers of Science, Engineering, and Mathematics Faculty, which can be read online here: http://www.nap.edu/catalog/12062.html.
Ceci & Williams also reported on this finding in their 2011 PNAS article. The fields were: biology, chemistry, civil engineering, electrical engineering, mathematics, and physics. A departmental survey collected information on in almost 500 departments about hires during 2002-2003 or 2003-2004 academic years. Thus, the "recent tenure track searches” occurred more than 10 years ago.
This finding is less unexpected if you know more of the details, e.g., "The percentage of women on the search committee and whether a woman chaired the search . . . [had] a significant effect on recruiting women.” Also, "Results from the logistic regression modeling suggest further that the probability of female interviewees increases when the percentage of female applicants increases, as would be expected (p < 0.0001), with the percentage of women in the search committee (borderline significant, p = 0.06) and with the number of family-friendly policies advertised by the university (borderline significant, p = 0.07)."
Putting these together: Women were more likely to apply for positions which had women on their search committees. Their likelihood of getting asked for an interview increased as the percentage of female applicants and search committee members increased.
My conclusion: If potential applicants who were female had ignored the gender composition of the search committee, results would have been quite different.
Denise is absolutely right: " It isn't the standard "women are stupid so don't hire or promote them" sexism that stands in our way. It is an outdated hierarchical tenure system that makes it virtually impossible to invest in family formation and care of very young children while simultaneously pushing for tenure. Women tend to care equally about our families and our careers, hence we end up impaled on the horns of the work-family dilemma that derails our careers."
This is absolutely true, but the problem can't be reduced to families. The experience of childless women also shows that there is bias that is not simply career structure but hinders recognition, resource access, and advancement.
Along those lines, I commend to you Nancy Hopkins' recent article on 50 years of women in biology here:
click.liebertpubmail.com/?qs=2cb2d059234e5f9c2df581ebb580ddc817c6b9e071360bbf6e26290d53a02907
Ceci and Williams don't claim that sexism doesn't exist, but instead that a different set of issues stand in women's way in the sciences. Specifically, they claim that "The third factor influencing underrepresentation affects women in all fields: fertility choices and work-home balance issues. However, this challenge is exacerbated in math-intensive fields because the number of women is smaller to begin with. Attrition at each stage (from undergraduate to graduate school to
tenure track) further reduces an already small number. There are significant sex differences in hours worked and lifestyle preferences (58), and having children early in one’s career exerts more downward pressure on pretenure women than men (4, 52, 53). The tenure system has strong disincentives for women to have
children; these disincentives are why more women in the academy are childless than men, and even women on tenure track with children are twice as likely as men to say they had fewer children than desired (50). Not only is it more common for male academic scientists to have children than for female scientists, but males
with children are more likely to be tenured than females with children. Compared with males, new female PhDs are less likely to apply for tenure-track posts; and among those who do apply, females are more likely to terminate for family reasons (55). The
GAO report (49) noted that many women PhD students stated during compliance visits that they would not seek tenure-track positions (SI Text, S11). In sum, the most salient reasons for women’s underrepresentation today are career preferences and fertility/lifestyle choices, both free and constrained."
As a scientist who stepped off the tenure track for precisely these reasons, then discovered how difficult it is to re-enter the tenure stream a mere 5 years (despite maintaining an active publication record), it seems clear to me that Ceci and Williams got it exactly right: It isn't the standard "women are stupid so don't hire or promote them" sexism that stands in our way. It is an outdated hierarchical tenure system that makes it virtually impossible to invest in family formation and care of very young children while simultaneously pushing for tenure. Women tend to care equally about our families and our careers, hence we end up impaled on the horns of the work-family dilemma that derails our careers.
So, out of 100 positions 1.4 women were hired? Probably, less since there is no break out of the number of women who applied for more than one position and were given multiple offers.
Hey Laura--
I wondered if you were going to comment on this study. I think, as Jo P said, that they do careful studies using established social science methods. However, I have a gut feeling that those established methods throw out the baby with the bath water. That is, by removing influences that themselves may have been affected by bias in the data analysis, evidence for bias could be minimized.
Suze
Laura--
Of course, anyone can see that this sort of poll isn't a scientific sample!
Critiquing Ceci and Williams, who use very well authenticated social science methods, is much harder. I think they have solid evidence that focusing on getting more women hired in math-intensive fields isn't likely to quickly solve the deficit in women full profs at major research universities. I believe earlier they argued that addressing child birth leave and child care issues would be a better target. I happen to agree with that. But I would take Valian's side in that headline critique. I wonder if Ceci and Williams chose that or the NYT editors added it later?
JRP
After several emails about possible uses of the polls on this site, I need to put in a big caveat emptor. Please note that the polling on this site is in no way a scientific sample of people. Self-chosen people respond. It's just an indication of how those who happened to read this post and respond felt. You get percentages and not actual numbers of respondents (which even I cannot see, in spite of having requested to see that number). So please don't take the results as definitive. Maybe it's a straw in the wind, no more.
cheers
Laura
