Insights from scientists who changed genders
What would you expect a woman scientist who became a man to observe about how he was treated? Ben Barres at Stanford has experienced this perspective; he achieved tenure at Stanford as Barbara, but realizing his life was a lie he chose to change his gender. It's fascinating to read what he has to say now. Obviously, Barbara Barres was an accomplished neuroscientist, as she become a tenured faculty member at Stanford. But after she became Ben, more invitations to speak at conferences came, more recognition of every kind came.
Ben's experiences and insights were described in Nature on July 13, 1996, as well as in an article by Allison McCook in The Scientist in May, 2010, and a variety of other places. In the 1996 Nature article, he said, "the main difference that I have noticed is that people who don't know I am transgendered treat me with much more respect: I can even complete a whole sentence without being interrupted by a man." He also noted, "By far, the main difference I have noticed is that people who don't know I am transgendered treat me with much more respect [as a man]"
The Scientist article by McCook article added a complementary perspective: from a man who had become a woman, Julia Serrano. However, Julia's career before and after the process of transgendering involved research associate positions, unlike the internationally visible R1 University positions held by Barres. Serrano felt that, apart from a few people who talked with her less, there were few changes in her life. However, she did notice that people had begun to talk over her head as if she were not even there. She had never experienced that as a male scientist. I'll bet most female scientists know exactly what she is talking about.
What do you think:
A.Each's experience as a woman is something I can relate to. People have talked over my head, and I could definitely use more invitations to speak.
B. This raises my blood pressure.
C. I don't think you can infer anything from a sample of two people.
D. I think these individuals are more sensitive to differences in treatment than others, so their observations seem too specialized and not really applicable to me.
Yeah, unfortunately a depressing point. One story Ben tells is of a colleague who was overheard soon after one of his seminars telling a colleague, "I love this Ben guy's ideas, too bad his sister Barbara can't communicate like that." Yeah.....granted the man in question is one who no one would mistake for being "progressive".
So your recollections about Barres mean, Helen, that part of the problem in women getting the credit they are due, is that even when their ideas are terrific, they aren't recognized as so good because they come from a woman. That makes me very sad. I can't say I'm shocked though.
cheers,
Laura
A. I met Barbara at the Woods Hole Embryology course when she was going through the process and have met Ben several times at conferences and during a roundtable after a wonderful seminar he gave at my company. I remember the student's reactions to Barbara and then watched the audience during Ben's presentation at work. Wow what a difference! As Barbara she was interrupted and her work considered marginal.One student even asked during the sweatbox session "Why were you invited again?". As Ben he was lauded and fawned over and everything he said was just brilliant :) Which it was of course, but what he had to say wasn't all that different than what he had been saying ten years before about the field. His vision was just as eloquent then as it is now. But try to get a man to see that when he's looking at a woman...
In a long career, I've been invited to talk in a symposium at a scientific meeting a total of three times. Never by a woman, but by men who were friends or at least good acquaintances. While men my age NEVER give a poster, I must or else I won't qualify as presenting at the meeting for institutional support. I feel quite sad standing among the graduate students and postdocs at the posters. So YES, women need to be invited to present more often. A way should be found to make this happen.
A is my answer. I try to raise men's consciousness about how they talk through and over me, and men who know me say, "Ahh, sorry, doing that again," as soon as I shout them down. But there are always new men to try it. It is one thing I try to check out before bringing a new grad student or postdoc into the lab: does he interrupt me a lot? I don't need the ultimate in cooperation, as I said in an earlier post, but along with excellence, I need people who can hear me.
FBP
Just back from American Society for Microbiology meeting where I heard they are reorganizing the annual meeting so that each symposium (ideally) will include 4 fifteen minute presentations from graduate students, postdocs, or junior faculty members. I'll be very interested to see the gender balance among those invited! Some Divisions want to use submitted abstracts as the source, others want to invite them by another process. I'd bet there will be more women invited if the abstracts were used.
cheers,
Laura
Dear 'Make Noise",
I think you could be right about the invitations, but I am not sure. I don't think it took very long to have the gender-change procedure, but it was right after tenure. I suspect someone who gets tenure at Stanford was very interesting to hear both before and after, and I've noticed when I'm part of invitation processes, young men (and sometimes women) seem to get extra attention in choosing speakers.
cheers,
Laura
This is fascinating! Talk about being inside another's shoes. I am not surprised that people take Ben more seriously than Barbara--it's very common for both men and women to take men more seriously, no matter what they are saying. Regarding getting invited to give more talks, I think we should consider the possibility that Barres became established as his career evolved, so the increased respect could come as a result of that seasoning over time, conflating the apparent increase from the earlier Barbara years. But everyone should know these stories, anecdotal or not.
