Children and Women's Success
In the New York Times, David Leonhardt commented in the Economics Scene section about the effects of children on success for men and women. His context was the recent confirmation of Elena Kagan for Justice of the Supreme Court. He said, "The last three men nominated to the Supreme Court have all been married and, among them, have seven children. The last three women - Elena Kagan, Sonia Sotomayor and Harriet Miers (who withdrew) - have all been single and without children."
Then he became more general and commented that the labor market in general seems hostile to mothers. Among other statistics he cited, one that jumped out for me was that " Over all, full-time female workers make a whopping 23 percent less on average than full-time male workers." He pointed out that taking a leave of absence has a permanent effect on both salary and advancement. And women do this more often, because of child care leaves.
He quoted Jane Waldfogel at Columbia saying that feminists chose in the past to emphasize access over working conditions, and have largely succeeded in obtaining access for women. I'm not sure that interpretation of the choice of feminism is corrent, given our information on women's rights history, Title VII, and the law re pregnancy and parental leaves from Sonia Pressman Fuentes, but women today surely do need to press for a decrease in 24/7 work expectation.
He then says that change is possible and that some groups have already been able to implement change, "If you want a preview, you can look at the few professions in which large numbers of highly skilled women have been able to force change. Obstetrics used to be a field that required doctors to be on duty at all hours. Today, group practices allow obstetricians to share the 3 a.m. deliveries and, in the process, have a life outside of work. Optometry and veterinary medicine have their own versions of this story. "
These groups are STEM-related! We have something to be proud of. Now, we should try to emulate them in all of our different contexts.
What do you think?
a. Group practice might work for OB/GYN but I don't see how it would work in the pharma industry or academia. I think each group has to work out how to solve this problem for itself.
b. I am skeptical that the situation is really solved in these fields, but I'm going to read more about what's happening in them. If they've solved it, we need to copy them.
c. Let's jump right in and try to create group practice models for all STEM women and men.
Laura:
I just tried to post a comment on your thread about Children and Women’s Success—but was unable to do so. I do not know what the problem was. Could you post this for me?
On the To the Contrary TV show this morning, there was a discussion of the recent study from the University of Chicago, which claimed that childless women became more successful in the workplace than women with children. To the Contrary’s website is at http://www.pbs.org/ttc/ Your readers should be able to see a podcast and transcript of this program in a week or less.
I commend this program to your readers. It’s a weekly discussion by women of diverse views on current issues of particular interest to women. In Sarasota, FL, where I live, it is on every Sunday at 8:00 a.m. on one PBS channel and at 1:00 p.m. on another.
Best,
Sonia
Sonia Pressman Fuentes
Speaker, Author: Eat First--You Don't Know What They'll Give You, The Adventures of an Immigrant Family and Their Feminist Daughter
Yes, hmcbride, thanks. The thing is, once I start working 12 hour days to get some particular study finished, it's hard to back off again when it's finished. The borderlines between projects are not always so clear, and there always seems to be a reason to hurry. But so far, I've been able to back out to 8 or 9 hour days and most weekends out of the lab each time when the big project crunch is over. FBP
FBP you are certainly not a curmudgeon. I agree that women should not have to work insane hours to get ahead in a career. And your experience provides an example that it doesn't have to be that way. I think it's easy to get caught up in feeling obliged to work the same as peers to prevent the appearance of getting special treatment. And it's easier to have that happen in academe where the extremes of "work commitment" are present. Laura, you are certainly right that the students will get taken care of while someone is on leave. In speaking with friends who have recently gone through that experience while trying to achieve tenure however, it is the grants that cause the most anxiety. Grant writing is a continuous process which demands new results, new papers and constant production. Without a firm hand on the reins of a lab, those things fall behind. Thus those women went back to work part-time at 3 weeks post-partum and full time at 5 weeks.
A. This forum is beginning to make me feel like a curmudgeon at an early age. I just don't see why women need men to have the same problems to become credible. If women can't work 24/7 for a good reason like a child, a life, etc, then they should just demand that themselves, end of story. I sometimes work crazy hours, but mostly I don't and I really don't think my career has suffered because I choose to have a life. FBP
I've noticed that the woman vet who takes care of my bird, and the two women who are the backup vets for my dog, seem to have flexible office hours but still get a lot of customer loyalty. They use the internet to show their availability and don't need to have the same hours every day, and the two that take care of dogs and cats seem to usually have only one of them there at the practice.
Hi Helen,
I love the description of how you prepared your team for your absence. That is how everything should work, but it's surprising because so often it doesn't happen that way. I agree that it's hard to imagine a similar scenario in an R1, because it seems like a dog-eat-dog environment in many ways. Yet I've interviewed R1 women profs who've told me their colleagues agreed to supervise their advisees after they had a child, and that sounds very supportive to me. I think it would be sensible to expect that sabbatical arrangements and child care arrangements are both expected and workable.
cheers,
Laura
The idea of shared practice and responsibility is an old one that has helped many women achieve good work/life balance in a variety of professions like the one listed. Basically you are all involved in making a group practice a success, so you rotate the call schedule accordingly. No junior partners here! And when a woman takes leave, the others jump in to take her workload with the expectation that she will help them out when the time comes. It works best when everyone will take the same leave at some time in the life of the practice for children or their parents. It also works in the biotech setting. When I took 10 weeks for my son's adoption, I prepared my team and manager to take over for me. Because of good preparation with each member as to the goals and expectations for their performance during my leave and the commitment of everyone on the team to not slow down in my absence, they made their goals without me having to be there. Instead, once a week telecons were enough to keep things going. I didn't feel so far behind (besides the 1000+ emails in my inbox) that I would never catch up. And my performance review this year will factor in the leave period in my final rating. So it certainly can work OUTSIDE academia. I have a hard time thinking about how to work at an R01 institution. You would need to have a peer who agrees to take on your lab during your absence as if it were her own in exchange for you doing the same later...and that is a tall order when worrying about your own lab is an 80+hr/week job!
Hi Small Science Woman and Surprised and pleased,
I was surprised by the Ob/Gyn and Vet info too. I'm going to try to look into the sources for that article, maybe there's more to it than just groups behind the increased success for women.
cheers,
Laura
B. I want to know more about how they did it before I think about applying grouping to my own field. But I like the concept of women helping each other and finding success!
B This perspective is a surprise to me. I am going to read more about the vets and the Ob/Gyn physicians. I wonder if we could create a group practice model for academia? Or just be more flexible about part time for a few years?
