No Equal Pay for Women MDs
Thanks Alan for bringing up those points, it's startling that US women still don't know how to negotiate well. I'm always confused as to why that is. I have a similar experience with European women. What are they teaching that we aren't?
I think Alan hit on the key point. Business is business, and if you can save money by paying someone less, and they are happy with it (until they realize what happened), you should do it for the good of the company. So if women don't ask, they won't get!
I've seen that point play out with a couple of hires in my former department a few years ago to illustrate that it is business and not always gender. They hired a young male scientist right out of his postdoc who had no clue what money to ask for. I found out after he joined that he was making 15K below market! In contrast a Russian woman scientist joined my group and was well versed in negotiation, so when I saw her salary she had gotten 7K above the average for her level. Good for her.
Now how can we teach young women this lesson in college, so that they start off on the right foot?
Hi all,
Helen and Alan, I agree women can opt for more flexible or fewer hours, but in this case, that was factored out and there were still thousands of dollars of discrepancy with no cause but gender. As Marian said, the AAUW's studies have shown over and over that women are paid less even in entry jobs right out of college, before they have kids to worry about. There are times when women's family/career balance explains part of the salary differential, but the basic picture remains one of systemic gender inequity.
Alan, yes, I agree women don't demand, don't negotiate as much, but many women who comment on here do say that they have learned to negotiate. It is a worthwhile skill to practice!
cheers,
Laura
Alan,
Sadly for women, recent AAUW studies show that the discrepancy between men and women exists in almost every profession. Most flabbergasting is that it starts early. Men and women in identical jobs and with identical backgrounds, and with corrections made for all other discrepancies (e.g., geography), showed significant salary differences only one year out of college. Furthermore, the discrepancies grew with time.
Independent of field, type of employer, family situation, you name it, the AAUW study found that there are almost no exceptions to the rule that men get paid more for the same work than do women
Marian
A number of random thoughts.
My neighbor is in the Navy, an MD, a LCDR (O-4). He makes more money than his wife, also an MD and a full rank higher than he is (O-5). Reason, he goes to sea, he goes to Iraq and Afghanistan. Ostensibly, the military pays everyone the same, but if you take on the hazardous duty they will pay more. He is a general surgeon, she an Ob/Gyn.
As professions become feminized their earnings go down. Well, at least for most. Law is an extreme example; the barriers to adding more students to a law school are low. As women became attracted to the law they didn't displace men, they added to the class. So, we have a glut of lawyers. Some still make a good living a lot are doing something other than law. Medical schools do have barriers to increasing class sizes so the effect is not as great, but it certainly is there.
I do a lot of subcontracting for an engineering company. They never post the salary. Women, when asked what compensation they are looking for go low. Often, asking for 60% of the position's approved pay level. Men, seem to know what the job is worth but will ask for roughly 10% more. That seems to be an American trait. German and Brazilian women know exactly what to ask for and they get it.
I would like to know if the pay discrepancy is the effect of the specialty chosen; or if it runs across the board. Are we comparing all MD's by specialty or are we comparing Neurologists to General Surgeons to Family Physicians? And are there significant gender deferential's in various specialties?
Hi Laura,
I am not surprised even if this is true outside an academic setting. But especially when women have to be reviewed for their contributions by a board full of men, why wouldn't they be paid less? Their contributions as we've seen tend to be heavily in the service category and/or teaching which are not valued highly. Thus their compensation is less.
But even in private practice, I would expect some women to earn less because they bill fewer procedures and often spend more time with patients (outside the restrictions in managed care). My female chiropractor for example sees fewer patients per day and closes on Fridays. She makes less, but spending more time with her kids is important to her, so she takes the pay cut for balance. My former male chiropractor was the exact opposite, working Sat mornings even to earn more for his family. He didn't think about spending time with them as valuable:)
