Love Leads to Science-Avoidance?
Dear friends of women in science,
I think it's very sad that saying you are a science or math person turns men off, and I know from personal experience that's not always true. It does help if they know you before they find out what you do, but what often works (unlike what Helen experienced) is to have a relationship with someone else in STEM fields. The Center for Gender Studies at Stanford has published a good study showing women in science almost always partner with scientists/mathematicians while men in science choose a woman partner much less frequently. It's probably rooted in the reactions we're all describing, almost involuntary rejection of STEM women as interesting partners by men, when they have no other information about us to go on. I have to smile to myself thinking about my high school friend Jeanne who took physics because "that's where the boys are."
cheers,
Laura
Maybe by the time we are postdocs we know how to hide our interest in the opposite sex a bit more successfully, i.e. we get subtle? Or maybe we give it up as a lost cause, thinking science is a harsh mistress and brooks no competition? Some of each, probably.
I see this among the younger college undergrads but not so much with grad students and postdocs. They have their goals set, usually, and often are already in relationships if that matters to them. Not that a conflict in junior high through the start of college is not a serious problem. Many girls decide for good and all which way to jump in exactly that time slot. FBP
Hi Livi, Marian, and Helen,
I agree, this kind of behavior is common at young ages, just when we'd like girls to be free to choose science. But Livi is right to say even after women stop acting in this way at a certain age, when they've chosen science, there are still issues that need to be addressed, such as respect, appreciation and reward, and child care. I am not sure we can do much about this issue for young girls of distraction by love or conflict between love and science, but I'd love to hear ideas about how it could be addressed.
cheers,
Laura
I have observed this with some young women, particularly HS age and even junior high. The other posters comments are spot on about not wanting to be perceived as the "smart" girl and besting the boys. This does tend to fade in grad school and by the time of postdoc is mostly gone.
I dealt with the situation by deliberately not dating anyone with a science/technology background. Instead I married a writer who understands my passion for what I do as he loves his own work, but has little understanding of the details of my work. Having been previously married to another scientist where we competed constantly with one another, I can say that I am very happy with that choice.
I do have many not so fond memories of dating during my postdoc...or at least attempting to do so...and having men turn around and walk away as soon as was polite once they heard I had a PhD. I never played dumb though. I figured only a good one would stick around anyway! And I am pleased to say I was right. My husband not only stuck around he was intrigued by my confidence and obvious commitment and happiness in my work.
How to communicate this to young women is a tough question. Telling them they will eventually find someone who will want to date a smart girl is not much consolation when you're 15...
Laura,
It is very sad, but I have seen many women who become dumb, eschewing all knowledge of math and science, in the presence of males. My experience is that the problem tends to be most prominent among younger women, say high school and early college age, and more prominent among those for whom technical fields are a more a hobby; a "maybe" but not a well defined, core interest.
As an example, how many high school age men date a woman who just explained their math homework to them and who regularly bests them in math and science class? In today's society women who openly demonstrate superior skills tend to emasculate young men. This is clearly a cultural bias and needs time to change. I'm old, so maybe the bias has improved, but, based on my children's experience, it is still there.
Sadly, I fear that the "no girls allowed" bias is strongest early in life when one is choosing a career or field of study. As women progress in STEM fields they become more confident.
I have met few men, my husband excluded, thank goodness, who are comfortable with dating (let alone marrying) a woman whose technical skills are superior to theirs. Sad but true.
Do many of you women out there have male partners who have math/science skills that are eclipsed by yours? Did you partner at an early age or later, for example, in graduate school? I'd be interested in hearing from you and about how well your men handle the discrepancy.
Marian
It's annoying because it's pretty trite, girls being distracted by romance while men just do the math. But these stale ideas are probably based on some reality. I think doing experiments on the choices was a good idea, and 19 year olds are surely relevant. But women leave the field later for different reasons, and this study does not address them.
