Do (Male) Winners Pick (Male) Winners?
Dear friends of women in science,
I will say up front that I was somewhat frustrated by a story about who top men pick as junior associates, but it's interesting and I've been meaning to post it and see what you think. Scott Jaschik in Inside Higher Education raised the question on July 1, 2014: "Are the Stars Sexist?"
Citing the findings reported in a Proceedings of the National Academy article by Jason Schelter and Joan Smith, he says, "men who have achieved elite status by virtue of awards they have won -- in other words, the men whose labs may be the best launching pads for careers -- are the least likely to hire women who are grad students and postdocs."
Jaschik cites some of the data from the paper. One of the telling comparisons was this one, "When the male professors who are members of the National Academy of Sciences hired graduate students, 41-42 percent of those getting the positions were women, while 47-48 percent of those hired by non-members who are male were women." If you believe that the recognized scientists, arguably the very best ones, are also the best mentors, there appears to be a disadvantage for the women. Women in the National Academy of Sciences (or recognized as HHMI professors, another category focused on by the study), did not have gender asymmetry in their choices of young associates. Interviewed about the findings, Schelter said women might not apply as frequently to the superstars or maybe the stars were less likely to select women applicants. He rejected any argument that the female applicants were not as worthy of acceptance to the top laboratories, based on success of female trainees in labs headed by women.
Either one of these reasons for the deficit of women mentored by top men disturbs me, as a proponent of equal access for women in science. But I find it possible to believe that either one or both could be true. I just wish the study had been designed to address and clarify the reason why the discrepancy was found.
How do you feel about this information? Does it ring true to you? Do you think women are unlikely to apply to the very top labs?
cheers,
Laura Hoopes
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Hi all,
I see that you tend to agree it's complicated and needs more study. Also, Sadeer has suggested a very plausible third possibility. More may exist; I have the impression that the first author just responded off the top of his head and hadn't had time to think what else could contribute. Anyway, we do see it as a promising avenue to be explicated by more research.
cheers,
Laura
Laura
I agree that multiple things are happening.
1. Women do tend to underrate their skills and ability -- numerous studies have shown this.
2. People tend to select those who are similar to themselves when choosing those they associate with, and the practice is not unique to academic situations. There seems to be that general bias towards "sameness" in all of us, and that is one of the problems facing women when obtaining faculty positions, particularly in the physical sciences. We choose to associate with what we know.
3. The key is likely to be expanding our circles to include those less identical to ourselves, be it different gender, nationality, religion, whatever. We all know that different is good, and diverse views can be valuable, but different can be hard to accept. We need to change the view of "different" and include well qualified women in the "same" category.
Sorry for the philosophizing this early morning -- I've been working too much with my son who is studying diversity and special ed among high school students and how to address problems in the classroom. Somehow we need to encourage and reward those who go outside the box and expand their pool of "sames".
Marian
Hi Laura,
It is certainly true from experience as a postdoc at a very competitive university, but it is likely to be unconscious. There are multiple factors at work including women wanting to join the lab cultures. How are those different? And some mentors are likely displaying a bias to picking trainees that are more "male" and thus fit into their view of who will be successful. There should definitely be a follow-up to dive into the details!
Helen
Hi,
Another possibility is that women are less likely to apply for a position in the best labs because they receive less encouragement to do so from their peers and/or mentors.
Sedeer
Laura--
I have long suspected this might be true. I am glad someone did a study on it. Maybe someone will follow up to answer the "why" question. Just showing the discrepancy exists is good, though. However, I'd bet that the bias in unconscious like the people who rated the potential male or female assistant in the study a couple of years ago. The top guys would no doubt say they just select the best by quality alone.
Mary Rose
Hi Laura,
Some women do lack confidence. I am not sure that confidence is really characteristic of the very best young scientists, so I worry that a woman worthy of the best postdoc may not apply to the best lab. But I don't want to let the top men off the hook either. I've heard quite a few Nobel laureates with Y chromosomes say sexist things about young women in science. The playing field isn't really level. I too wish the study had addressed the two ideas and found a way to test what the real problem was. Maybe it was both!
Benne
