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May 21, 2013 | By:  Nature Education
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University of Illinois’s Tim Stelzer on Learning Physics with Interactive Media

In today's podcast, Ilona talks with Tim Stelzer, a theoretical particle physicist and a research Associate Professor of Physics at the University of Illinois. Over the past few years, Tim has created and used a new system of media tools that have improved learning in introductory physics, by expanding the use interactive web tutorials. His success in creating interactive tools predated these tutorials, as is also one of the inventors of the I-clicker student response system. Tim is also a regular on the University of Illinois "Incomplete List of Teachers Ranked as Excellent by Their Students." Listen to this podcast to learn about how Tim expands physics beyond the textbook and the lecture formats, and how he has measured significant increases in long term learning and positive attitudes toward physics among his students. [12:15]



















Full transcript

ILONA MIKO: Welcome to the latest edition of NatureEdCast. I’m Ilona Miko and today we’re talking to Tim Stelzer, a theoretical particle physicist and a research associate professor at the University of Illinois. Over the past few years, Tim has created and used a new system of learning tools that have improved learning in introductory physics by expanding the use of interactive web media. He was one of the inventors of the I-clicker student response system and is a regular on the University of Illinois “Incomplete List of Teachers Ranked as Excellent by Their Students.” Welcome, Tim.

TIM STELZER: Thank you!

MIKO: Thanks for joining us! So, you’ve created an interesting approach to physics learning to prepare students for their lectures. Why did you think there was a need to change the way that students prepare for the physics lecture?

STELZER: Well, I think all faculty really value the time they have with the students and in my case that is, in fact, the lecture and so it was really concerning to me when evidence starting coming in that what I’ll call the traditional form of lecture — the idea where we provide content to the students during that 50 minutes — was pretty ineffective for the students and in fact I even had some of my own data where I asked the students how important was the lecture in helping them learn the material and was really disappointed to find out that less than half of them, only 40% of my students, said the lecture was important for helping them learn the material. So, I was interested in making a change to that and one of the ideas that was going around at the time was the idea of pure instruction. And that was instead of spending the time providing content to students, I would provide some content, but most of the time would be spent with the students trying to apply that content to different problems, discuss the issues with each other, and then report back what they thought the solution was. Well, this idea seemed to work very, very well in the classroom. In fact, that motivated us to develop the I-clicker student response system. We quickly learned, though, to take full advantage of this we really needed to know where the students’ strengths were and where their weaknesses were so we could ask good questions. And once again we looked at what other people were doing and adopted this idea called “Just-in-Time Teaching,” where we’d ask the students to fill out the survey before lecture, and based on their responses to that, we would tailor the lecture and tailor the questions. And so, this again was a great idea. The difficult part of it was what we found out was students really didn’t have much content — they weren’t learning from the textbook. And so that was a real challenge for us in terms of wanting to be able to spend time not providing content to the students, but having them discuss it. So, we needed some mechanism to get them better prepared so we could take better advantage of our lecture time.

MIKO: So, how were you able to apply these ideas about preparation to actual physics instruction?

STELZER: Yes, so what we did is we looked around at some research that had been done on how people learn, and there’s a whole field, it turns out, about multimedia learning. And it seems that people are very well designed to learn when they have both an audio and video input of the data. And of course with the advances in web technology, it seemed like a perfect match. So, what we decided to do was to develop what we call pre-lectures. They’re multimedia content that we can put online, they’re relatively short (about 15 minutes), and the students can view these before coming to lecture and it really prepares them. It provides them the base content that they need to be able to get the most out of lecture.

MIKO: So, with these pre-lectures, I understand you actually did some formal studies. You studied how effective they were and you conducted two main longitudinal studies following students: one outside the classroom in kind of a what you call a clinical setting and one inside the classroom. Can you tell us a little bit about your comparisons and what you found with these studies?

STELZER: That’s exactly right. So, preparing these pre-lectures is an enormous amount of work, so we wanted to make sure that what we’re creating was in fact effective. So, the first study that you mentioned is a clinical study, and what we did there is we invited some physics students to come in and participate and we paid them some money and they actually came into the physics department and we divided them into two groups. One group of the students was given some material to read from a standard textbook. The other group was given a pre-lecture on the same content. Then they could spend as much time as they wanted studying that or doing the activities and then immediately afterwards we gave them a test on the material that they had seen. And so we got one result there and then actually we invited them to come back a couple weeks later and just take another test, to see how well they remembered the material. And so in that clinical study we had very nice results. The students who saw the pre-lectures actually scored about 10% to 13% higher on the exam, both immediately afterwards and a week later when they came back to do that. So that was quite encouraging. And since it seemed to work we decided to go for it and do the whole semester’s worth of material. And we did that and applied it in the classroom and the results were again very exciting because just going to lecture was a really different experience. The students were answering the pre-lecture surveys much better; they were asking much better questions in class and it all felt really good. So we were very excited when the first exam came around — to see if we would once again see these dramatic improvements on their exam performance — and in this case it was: They did better, but they didn’t do the 10 to 13% better that they had done in the clinical study. So, a little disappointed in that perhaps, but it became clear what was happening and why they didn’t score as much higher as we thought. It was basically the students were taking other classes and so they found the physics easier to learn and so they were actually spending more time on some of their other classes.

MIKO: So basically you gave a gift to some other professors with that one.

STELZER: Yes, I guess so, that was a little bit unintentional but it was—

MIKO: —It’s a good benefit all the same. I’m curious, could you describe the pre-lectures a little bit, just for a moment here, and give us a sense of what the experience is like for a student involved in the multimedia pre-lecture?

STELZER: Oh excellent. Yes, I should have described that before. What happens is the student, it’s about a 15 minute experience and it’s divided up into about two minute segments and we call them slides or scenes and the student will watch one and view the animation and listen to the audio, and then they can click on to a next slide and interspersed in there, there are some questions that the students can answer to basically help them see if they’re understanding the material at the appropriate level.

MIKO: So it’s assessing them as they go through concept learning that’s reinforced by both visual and audio experiences.

STELZER: Exactly.

MIKO: OK. And it takes about 15 minutes. So, I’m curious, so you’ve quantified how effective these have been for performance. It sounds like a whole letter grade is probably some of the improvements you’ve been seeing, if the average is about 10 to 13% improvement, which is really important — it’s very significant improvement in their understanding. I mean both for their performance and their comprehension, but also their grades are better, which means a lot to the students, I’m sure. But I’m curious if you could talk a little bit more about, is it really enough to say that the students perform better? Do you have any other findings you could tell us about that helped inform your teaching or indicated something you were doing was working to the benefit of really effective teaching?

STELZER: Yes, absolutely. As I mentioned, when we looked at the exam performance for the hour exams, it wasn’t the full 10% higher that we were expecting. It was a little bit less than that and so we wanted to have another measure of the impact this was having because qualitatively it really felt much, much better in lecture. And so one thing that we happened to have is these surveys we had done with the students. I started this by mentioning how disappointed I was that the students were — only 40% of the students were saying the lecture was really important in helping them learn the material. There were a couple other questions on that survey that caused concern for us. One was that in fact only that 80% of the students considered this physics course to be one of the hardest courses on campus and only 40% of the students, at the end of the course, had a positive attitude towards physics. So, again, we asked those same questions again after implementing these pre-lectures and here the changes were pretty remarkable. First, what used to be 80% of the students saying it was one of the most difficult courses on campus, that number dropped to only 40% saying it was one of the most difficult courses on campus.

MIKO: That’s fabulous. That’s really great.

STELZER: Yeah, it’s really nice and it’s not that we necessarily want our course to be so easy, but you worry when you’re at the 80% level, you’re really pushing the students a little bit too close to the edge. Some other nice information was their attitude toward physics at the end of the course. Remember, I said before this only 40% had a positive attitude towards physics at the end of the semester and after implementing this change 80% of the students had a positive attitude. So, that’s really, really nice for us to feel that they're understanding the material and they’re feeling better about it.

MIKO: Yeah, so in general, amongst all of their other courses in comparison, they were feeling like this was a more fun experience for them and in the classroom as well, during your lecture.

STELZER: Yes, and then my favorite one of all, the thing that motivated this in the beginning, was how important was the lecture to helping understand the material. Remember only 40% of the students were saying that the lecture was important in helping them learn the material. After making this change, 80% of the students said that the lecture was really valuable in helping them understand the material. So, this difference, getting them to come to lecture with the content, with the content or some content already at their fingertips, really made a difference in what they were able to learn while they were in the lecture spending the time with us. So, that—

MIKO: It definitely makes it more rewarding for the lecturer as well, I would think, to hear that the students found the lecture valuable!

STELZER: Absolutely, absolutely. I really appreciate the time I have with the students and you want to use the time as effectively as possible, and we feel like this change in the pre-lectures to get them ready for lecture and what we’re able to do in the classroom has really had a big impact.

MIKO: Well, thanks for telling us about this today, Tim. These pre-lectures are really interesting, it’s actually a nice quantified result of how you can effectively use multimedia to make in class learning better and I think that’s great. The future seems to be a hybrid of the two; improving both and having one complement the other. It sounds like you’re doing a great job of that. Thanks for joining us today!

STELZER: Thank you so much.

MIKO: Thank you for listening to this edition of NatureEdCast. You can find this podcast and others at nature.com/scitable. That's nature.com/s-c-i-t-a-b-l-e. Please join us again next time.


May 26, 2011 | By:  Nature Education
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Episode 19: HMS's Gael McGill on Molecular Visualization

In today's podcast, Ilona talks to Gael McGill, Director of Molecular Visualization at Harvard Medical School and CEO of Digizyme. While earning a PhD in Cell and Molecular Biology at Harvard Medical School, Gael recognized a need for scientifically-informed design that would support both the communication and analysis of scientific ideas. To meet this need, he began Digizyme, a scientific animation and design studio that supports scientists in biotech, pharma, and academia to help them create animations of molecules. These animations incorporate actual measurements of molecular structure and movement, and therefore depict their authentic function and process. Together with his team at Harvard, Gael creates molecular animations and does research on how to best design visual media for science and education. Gael is currently applying his talents and research results as Digital Media Director for the Life on Earth Project, spearheaded by E. O. Wilson, which aims to develop an interactive digital biology textbook that will be free and available to all. Until then, we can enjoy his ongoing effort to select and disseminate molecular animations with a high teaching value in the ever-growing collection of animations at MolecularMovies.org. [15:27]











Full transcript

ILONA MIKO: Welcome to the latest edition of NatureEdCast. I'm Ilona Miko, and today we're talking to Gael McGill, Director of Molecular Visualization at Harvard Medical School and CEO of Digizyme. While earning a PhD in Cell and Molecular Biology at Harvard Medical School, Gael recognized a need for scientifically-informed design that would support both the communication and analysis of scientific ideas. To meet this need, he began Digizyme, a scientific animation and design studio that supports scientists in biotech, pharma, and academia alike to help them create animations of molecules. These animations incorporate actual measurements of molecular structure and movement, and therefore depict their authentic function and process. Together with his team at Harvard, Gael creates molecular animations and does research on how to best design visual media for science and education. As part of a full-fledged effort to apply the fruits of this kind of work to the greater good, Gael is also Digital Media Director for the Life on Earth Project, spearheaded by E. O. Wilson, which aims to develop an interactive digital biology textbook that will be free and available to all. Welcome, Gael.

GAEL MCGILL: Well, thanks for having me.

MIKO: So, can you tell us a little bit, what is data visualization, and what can we learn from it?

MCGILL: Sure. So, I think broadly speaking, I would reduce that to bio-visualization, which is the specific area that my activities are focused on. And I think of it as a way to understand nature by creating images or movies of it. So there are many ways in which the processes of nature remain hidden from us, either because the structures are so infinitely small or because the processes happen on timescales that are beyond the reach of the human senses, whether it's the incredibly rapid conformational changes of a protein or whether it's changes that happen on ecological or evolutional timescales — to me bio-visualization is an opportunity to make those changes visible and to reveal those structures and processes to the audience in an intuitive and visual way. And so I think the other thing about visualization that I like think about is that it's actually — there's quite a variety of projects. I think of it as a continuum of activities. On the one end of the spectrum, you have the use of animation and multimedia to communicate and for educational purposes. These are usually very narrative-driven movies and you're telling a specific story. And so I think that's the traditional way we think of science animation. But at the other end of the spectrum, you also have the use (often using the very same software tools) of visualization to look for answers or patterns in raw data. And here you're using it more as a discovery tool, and really just to formulate new hypotheses. So my groups actually create projects at either end of the spectrum, whether it's an outreach movie for the Boston Museum of Science or WGBH, all the way to the other end, such as creating accurate visualizations for colleagues at Harvard Medical School. So anyway, it's an exciting field. It's more than pretty pictures. We try to be as accurate as we can, and it's an opportunity for knowledge synthesis, I think, in biology as well.

MIKO: So how do you make these animations? And specifically, what is the form of the information you use to create such detailed and authentic animations?

MCGILL: Well, so you might expect that specialized software coming out of the research community would be really what's used in this case. But actually, there's a recent trend where people have been looking to the entertainment and gaming industries and to borrow from essentially what has been billions of dollars of investment in software development. So this is the Hollywood-type software that they've used to create any of the Pixar movies or Star Wars or Avatar. Those are incredibly powerful software animation and simulation suites, and in particular the one that we use, and one of the more established packages is called Maya, which is made by Autodesk. The thing is, those packages were never meant, really, to animate biological data or even to import it. So we wanted to build upon the power of that software and give it the ability to directly import scientific data, and thereby increase the accuracy. So a few years back, we created a new software called Molecular Maya that sits on top of Maya and lets you animate and import molecular — and it's not just molecular, also cellular data — there's really no limit, in a sense, to where we can gather the data for these movies. We do start a lot of times from the PDB, the Protein Databank, or the EM databank for electronic microscopy. So those are the, those are the tools and the sources, but I would just add that I think even more important is to start with an interest for developing accurate animations, which has not always been, I think, the priority in science movies, at least ones driven by marketing dollars. So, you know—

MIKO: Yes, well, making beautiful pictures is often, goes a long way, yeah — whether they're accurate or not.

MCGILL: Right. Yeah, and actually, knowing how to find the right data, as well. I think those are challenging things. It's one of the reasons why everyone on my team is a scientist by training. I think it's important to be passionate about the science that you depict, and the aesthetics of the movies serve the content, rather than being kind of eye candy for its own sake.

MIKO: And apparently using them, you can use these in ways to find out about how students learn. So I'm curious here, your team recently completed a research project that tracked students' understanding of the biological processes they observed in animations, and they also used — you also used eye tracker recordings to follow what components of an animation an eye dwelled on and spent the most time with. Can you tell us a little bit about that project and the results you found?

MCGILL: Sure. So in addition to our visualization and software development efforts, we're very interested in how the design of an animation has an impact on how students learn the science, and there's a lot of talk about the potential for multimedia engaging students, and in certain cases, I think of it almost as buying attention credits. But actually we're interested in pushing that further. We would really like to know how the design of a scientific animation can directly be connected to knowledge transfer. What is the best way to use these tools for maximal pedagogical impact? So the experiment itself is to take a very simple, in this case a very simple molecular binding event, a ligand is binding a receptor. But what we did is, we created that short theme in four different versions. And I can briefly describe those versions. Version one is where the ligand and the receptor meet in a very predictable way, let's say. The ligand flies in, lands very smoothly on the receptor as if it new exactly where it was going, there are no additional proteins in the environment, there's no particular internal motion (in other words, the proteins are dealt with as rigid bodies), and it overall looks like a very controlled process. Version two has the same actors, let's say, in the movie, but we have random motions on both so that you don't really have a sense that the ligand knows where it's going. Version three is identical to version two, except that we add molecular crowding in the environment, so a lot of other proteins bumping around. And version four is the same as version three, but we add even more visual complexity, where now we're showing actual molecular water and it's actually a complete mess, visually, but one in which the student can still follow the ligand and the receptor binding event.

So we have 200 students. We break them into four groups. Each group sees a different animation. They get a test before they see it; they get a test right afterwards. And they also have a test two weeks later for long-term memory. And then for some of the students, as you mentioned, we also have eye tracking data, so we know exactly what the students were looking at as they viewed the animation. And in a nutshell, what we found is that perhaps surprisingly, the students who were exposed to the more complex versions, visually-complex versions, tend to do quite a bit better than students who were exposed to the simplified versions. And I think the reason why I'd find that quite interesting is that it tells us that if the animation is cleanly designed, if you still can pull out the main event of the ligand binding, you can add all kinds of additional motion (and in this case crowding, let's say, of the environment) that gives students an intuition for how molecular environments may behave. And that type of information carries across the entire curriculum. It's no longer about, does A bind B. It's about having an intuition for Brownian motion or diffusion or things that we need to start thinking about embedding in the design of our animations. So we're very excited by this preliminary data, and I think quickly some obvious next steps to us relate to research that's been done, where we know that sometimes a movie, even a beautiful and accurate movie, that plays at you is not enough. You need to engage students. You need to trigger their ability to ask questions and even make mistakes. It's a, learning is an iterative process, and a lot of this comes out of kind of the inquiry-based learning field. So we've been looking at ways to give students control over dialing in and out the visual complexity of the animations interactively. So that it gives them the ability to essentially scaffold their understanding of the process — if they can dial in some of these additional, more complex visual layers. And even better, and I'll end on that for this question, is the idea that they might able to control a simulation of the binding event in real time, and actually we've started to create those tools as well. So it's not just about dialing in the visual complexity, but about changing the temperature, the concentration, so that they find conditions where the binding event may never even occur or they discover on their own what are the best parameters to allow the binding event to happen. And I think that would be an exciting thing to test.

MIKO: So this is like a very complex dimensional interactive, as opposed to a very 2D interactive, which is the popular form these days, where the student can remove action in the animation and see how that action actually affects the focus of the animation, which is really interesting. And I think that does really blend well with the inquiry based strategies that many people advocate now in science ed. What I'm curious about is, do you see this kind of — obviously this is a very labor intensive work — do you see this kind of science instruction becoming more popular? And do you see it as a trend increasing in science education in general?

MCGILL: I think that it's definitely a field in full expansion right now. I think scientific animation itself has been around for a little while. So that in itself is not really what's new. What may be new and improving is the care and accuracy with which these are created. And I think that comes not only from better tools, but also there's kind of a new generation, I think, of scientist animators, of people who have not only a command of the content but also the technical capabilities to pull off these high-end animations. So in that sense, I think, there's a new trend. And I'm involved in the creation of a new digital biology textbook, E. O. Wilson's Life on Earth. And I mention that, because it's been a great platform to test and develop our visualization skills and to be more proactive, basically, about putting some of these design principles into practice. So the focus, again, is not just to engage the students, but with the existing team that we have, and with this project, it gives us the ability to ask for every nugget of information: What is the best approach to teaching that one concept? It's no longer the idea that you write 1,000 pages of a textbook, and almost as an afterthought, you think of an art program. You think of developing figures for it. This is a bit of a new process where we can ask ourselves for every concept that we're teaching: What's the most efficient way to teach that? It may still be just a paragraph of text in certain cases. But in other cases, it may be a static diagram or an interactive diagram or an animation or even just a video interview with a charismatic scientist. So I think because we have all of these techniques in our toolbox, we're really excited to be embarking on this new project. And you know, in general, it's just a very exciting field to be in. Bio-visualization gives you an opportunity to combine not only your passion for science and your love of biology, but also it's quite technical in the way that you would implement these. So that combined with any artistic tendencies you might have, it's really an exciting field to be in at the moment.

MIKO: Well, thanks, Gael, for telling us about that today, and thanks for joining us.

MCGILL: Thank you.

MIKO: Thank you for listening to this edition of NatureEdCast. You can find this podcast and others at nature.com/scitable. That's nature.com/s-c-i-t-a-b-l-e. Please join us again next time.


March 16, 2011 | By:  Nature Education
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Episode 18: MIT’s Natalie Kuldell on Synthetic Biology Tutorials

In today's podcast, Ilona talks with Natalie Kuldell, a scientist and instructor in MIT's Department of Biological Engineering. Natalie began her career as a microbiologist, and her interest in education led her to apply her scientific knowledge to what she calls "authentic" curriculum development. With funding from the NSF, Natalie created BioBuilder, an online resource for both teachers and students about synthetic biology. BioBuilder features short, animated primers that explain the basics of gene expression alongside some foundational tools for engineering biology. This information is combined into teachable activities that explore how scientists can control the genes of microorganisms to enable new discoveries, or to construct useful new biological systems. As a part of the NSF-funded Engineering Research Center known as SynBERC, BioBuilder makes an important contribution by offering accessible, easy to use, and easy to learn from material that is appropriate for both high school and college classrooms. Listen to this podcast to learn how you can use BioBuilder. [10:51 ]











Full transcript

ILONA MIKO: Welcome to the latest edition of NatureEdCast. I'm Ilona Miko and today we're talking to Natalie Kuldell, professor of biological engineering at MIT, and creator of BioBuilder.org, an online learning resource about synthetic biology. Natalie began her science career as a microbiologist and her interest in education led her to MIT where she currently develops curriculum and teaches. With funding from the NSF, Natalie created BioBuilder, an online resource for both teachers and students to provide them with reliable instructional material about the fairly new science of synthetic biology. BioBuilder features short animated primers that explain the basics of gene expression as well as some basic technical bioengineering tools. This information is combined into teachable activities that explore how scientists can control the genes of microorganisms to either enable new discoveries or to construct useful new biological systems. As part of the NSF-funded engineering research center known as SynBERC, BioBuilder offers accessible, easy-to-use, and easy-to-learn-from material that is appropriate for both high school and college classrooms. Welcome, Natalie.

NATALIE KULDELL: It's great to be talking to you.

MIKO: Thank you for joining us. So tell us why did you create BioBuilder?

KULDELL: Well, let's see, I had been using synthetic biology in my classes at MIT to teach my students both the scientific ideas that they needed for bioengineering as well as some of the engineering principles, and I really liked the way that worked. So my students, as they were trying to design new systems or redesign existing ones, had to understand both the basic biology — things like enzymes and genetic control — but also had to work through the design and construction plans of their systems and synthetic biology really seemed to lend itself to those kinds of learning. So now, BioBuilder started when it was folks outside my classroom who heard about my teaching and grew really interested in this topic and wanted to learn about it. So it's interesting that synthetic biology does draw a lot of people into the field. They're interested, I think, because it's interdisciplinary, but also because there are some concerns and misunderstandings around it. So BioBuilder was my solution to trying to help people who might be expert in one thing learn the basics about something else. So for example, the policymakers who would come to me wanting to know about biology or maybe the biologist wanting to learn some engineering. So my initial idea was that BioBuilder could be an open website where anyone who was interested in synthetic biology could learn from.

MIKO: How did you create it? You already have a full-time job. So what resources were you able to assemble and how did you actually make it happen?

KULDELL: Yeah, my teaching at MIT keeps me busy for sure. But the National Science Foundation funded an engineering research center for synthetic biology, and with that funding, it really felt like I had an opportunity to work on something that was a little beyond the norm, something that could reach a broader community. So at that time, BioBuilder was leveraging the success of a comic strip that had appeared in Nature. It was in 2005 and that comic strip was called Adventures in Synthetic Biology. It drew a lot of attention to this new field and it was also trying to teach—

MIKO: Who made the comic? I'm just curious, who made the comic?

KULDELL: My colleagues Drew Endy, Isadora Deese here at MIT, and the Synthetic Biology Working Group that we have here at MIT. The comic was really successful in many ways, but we also found that it was hard for real newcomers to the field to understand all of it. And so, our next thought was that we could scaffold the material a little bit more, maybe break it down into smaller single-page comic strips and activities that people could do, and that would keep the content both interesting and entertaining but could also educate a broader community. So as you mentioned, I had wonderful colleagues working on this with me, including Drew Endy, who's now at Stanford University, but also had some wonderful high school teacher working with me. He's from Sharon, Massachusetts, named Jim Dixon and a great animation company in New York.

MIKO: So tell us more about how BioBuilder is organized. How can someone, once they get there, how can they use it?

KULDELL: So the site is fully open access and will always be that way. It's built for both teachers and students. Right now if you go to the site, you would find some hands-on laboratory activities that connect the science and engineering standards that most high schools have to meet or maybe could be suitable for biotechnology lab class or some early college-level laboratory class. There are also some classroom activities that don't require laboratory space. Those are focused on bioethics or biodesign. But the site is really modular, so there's no order, prescribed order, to the content that's there and no set number that needed to be, would need to be complete. So if you were a student, you could go, you could watch the animations and learn from them. You could engage in the activities, answer some of the questions. There's also a place to submit your data. If you were a teacher coming to the site, you could find some resources for preparing the reagents, grading rubrics, some sample data if you wanted to compare your class data to other data that's available, and see, there's also a forum, a discussion forum so teachers can share information with one another about how things are going.

MIKO: I took a look at some of the animations and I was impressed with the personalities that you ascribe to certain people, like the teacher, the lab person, and the student in the lab. Can you tell me a little bit about how you came to those kind of characterizations and what the creative process was for that?

KULDELL: Yeah, that's a collaborative process that we've come to over a time. I've really enjoyed how the characters have evolved. We've tried to sort of draw in a curious student and somebody who's a little expert in science and another person who's more expert in engineering, and I think the interactions really speak to the community and the necessary collaboration that has to occur in this field.

MIKO: I liked particularly the personality traits that you ascribe to some of the folks in the lab. I think a lot of scientists will see it a very familiar set of people in those interactions, and you make it kind of fun. You make it interesting and familiar, but you also make it fun. This seems like a new way to approach teaching, and I'm curious. It starts from an application-based sensibility and it sort of addresses why we should care or how can we use aspects of science. And it's a natural question for a graduate engineering student, but not really so natural for high schoolers or intro biology students. So how does BioBuilder fit into the current and future landscape of science learning do you think, as far as making science more accessible to broader audiences?

KULDELL: Yeah. For me, the real heart and fun of doing science is the investigation and the actual practice of it. So I would love in the future to see more teaching being done through the investigation of some good existing examples and through asking students to become participants and engage with the content directly. A lot of teaching and certainly some of what I had when I was coming through the ranks was teaching around technical aspects of what you can do. But really, techniques change so much over time, it really doesn't feel like there's a lot of usefulness in teaching just techniques. And then, in terms of just knowledge and direct content, that's so discoverable through Wikipedia and through any Internet search. So the message I would love to have students take away from this and other parts of their learning is that what they think really matters, that they need to engage with the content, not just as technicians about it but actual thinking members of a community. So if they do that, they could approach the material with a lot of enthusiasm and we'd expect them to approach it with thoughtfulness. People, maybe given how they've learned science or thought about it, don't really have a good feeling. Many people don't have a good feeling about what it is to be a scientist and don't really get engineering. But people can be just brilliant at it if they're given the room to make some discoveries and make some mistakes and maybe just make some choices about what it is they want to study. I mean, who wouldn't want to do that, right?

MIKO: Yeah. Do you think that BioBuilder and synthetic biology in particular, these kinds of approaches, do you think they serve a larger purpose of informing maybe not just students but the public about things like synthetic biology? Can you talk a little bit about some of the concerns that the public might have about synthetic biology and what a site like this can do to help rectify some of those negative images that the field sometimes has?

KULDELL: Right. So I'm actually in New York teaching at a community lab space some of the BioBuilder content and yesterday I got to teach an artist who was interested in working with biology and a physics undergraduate student and somebody who hadn't been in a lab for thirty years, but was a biology major in college. I think there are a lot of people who find interest and sort of a tantalizing aspect to biology, sort of see it as the future direction for solving many problems. But there is a fear that it inspires as well, that we don't really know what we're doing, that we're overreaching and not considering the impact of what we do. So I think that by actually trying some of the content and making it open and accessible, not only does it convey the notion that this is a community working hard at this, but also it really drives home the limitations of what we are able to do at this point, that much of the hype around synthetic biology talks about a future that is far off and hard to imagine and that what we have in hand right now is far more humble.

MIKO: Thanks for telling us about all of this today, BioBuilder and the way it actually is crafted to help us understand synthetic biology in a new way, and hopefully, attract lots of different audiences to the field. Thanks, Natalie.

KULDELL: Thanks for giving me the chance.

MIKO: Thank you for listening to this edition of NatureEdCast. You can find this podcast and others at nature.com/scitable. That's Nature.com/s-c-i-t-a-b-l-e. Please join us again next time.

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