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Published online 23 September 2009 | Nature | doi:10.1038/news.2009.935
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Indian ancestry revealed
The mixing of two distinct lineages led to most modern-day Indians.
The population of India was founded on two ancient groups that are as genetically distinct from each other as they are from other Asians, according to the largest DNA survey of Indian heritage to date. Nowadays, however, most Indians are a genetic hotchpotch of both ancestries, despite the populous nation's highly stratified social structure.
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It is true
This study reveals that stratified structure of the Indian society has no scientific meaning. It is just a social construct; cleverly build by people who had kept the hegemonic power. Even now highly 'educated' people themselves are so particular about endogamy and very few people prefer exogamy. I am sure that there will be a lot of recessive deceases but enlightening educated top class itself will be practically impossible. Who want to maintain these social strata? It is all about power and politics. It is the time, wake up... for a better future!!!.
Can we explain different intelectual & physical performence of different Indian cast on the basis of scientific data obtained? Answer will finally lead to solution for under performing casts, their future remady and finally end to politically hot reservation system in in India. Anurag chaurasia, ICAR,anurag@nbaim.org
In my opinion this is a rather simplistic model. Presently, except for forensic genetics (which is a pretty accurate discipline), racial genetics has tremendous latitude for manipulation. Thus a crafty genetist can develop models that can often push his or her agenda.
If one looks into the Indian epics (Rigveda, etc.) we see no reference to the Caucasian Race or European Race. We only hear of the Aryan Race. Undoubtedly with the coming of the Europeans into the subcontinent a group of people mainly the Anglo-Indians (a minority group) did come into existence. While ancient India and Iran (which is Middle-East) do share a linguistic, racial and cultural link, however, the coming of the Semites (Arabs) into the subcontinent is predominantly a recent event, mainly after the advent of Islam. Also while Iranians are Middle-Eastern people they are surely not Arabs. Moreover, as anticipated, a strong genetic link (1) between two prominent Semitic people namely the Jews and Arabs has been clearly demonstrated. Also no genetic link whatsoever has been established(2) for example between the Jews and Kashmiris.
Moreover, Sanskrit is the oldest surviving Indo-European language and pre-dates all European languages. Also Sanskrit has no link to Semitic languages. With the movement of the Aryan Mitanni and Persian conquests of parts of Europe there must surely be a genetic input of these people in Europe.
Thus for the time being I would go by our Hindu religious texts where Lord Rama is referred to as Aryaputra (son of Aryans) and the Iranians can surely rely on their origin by this quote of Darius: “The king of many countries and many people
The king of this expansive land,
The son of Wishtaspa of Achaemenid,
Persian, the son of a Persian,
'Aryan', from the Aryan raceâ€.
From the Darius the Great's Inscription in Naqshe-e-Rostam, 5th century BCE
1) PNAS 2000 97:6769-6774
2) Am J Hum Genet. 2002 May; 70(5): 1107–1124
Dr. Upinder Fotadar
Sorry for an error. The sentence should read, "While ancient India and ancient Iran (which is Middle-East) did share a linguistic, racial and cultural link, however, the coming of the Semites (Arabs) into the subcontinent is predominantly a recent event, mainly after the advent of Islam."
Dr. Upinder Fotadar
Dear Dr. Fotadar, do not be alarmed by these findings. Your right to live anywhere in the world comes from your want to live there and not your ancestry. (I know this is not realy true but I wish it were :))
Thus everything is clear. The Indian national pledge " India is my country and all Indians are my brothers and sisters..." is now pertinent.scientific basis for the Indian ancestry is proclaimed, so merge all the castes and abolish the practice of caste system in power and politics.what actually going on is "tactical casteism"!!
Evidently a cursory study part of an ongoing foreign agenda.
First,
a) Why do we need genetic basis of ancestry now ? Personalized medicine is a new term coined and is being branded. Why ? To make business. Are there no other ways or better ways of achieving medical/health care solutions. We have many better ways than the sympomatic allopathy. Most of the health care methodologies are going back to traditional Indian Medical methodologies. This step is more desperation.
b) Further, Why India ? Why so much media hype? why not Chinese? why not Americans? Why not Red Indians (Native) ? Why not African Population ?
c) Exploitation of our Biological Ignorance: Genetics and Biology for that matter of fact is just a means to understand Life like any other science Physics, Chemistry. Its an evolving process. Definitely NOT the last piece to solve the puzzle of understanding Human/Living Beings. 50% of Environment and 50% of Genetics – play major role. The Environment influences through MIND which has not yet been understood fully. Why this project? The conclusions from this project are unnecessarily hyped. There is nothing great about the conclusions.
d) When Managers, Branding, Networking takes the main stage and Scientists are replaced by Managers, or Scientist want to become Sales managers, just because they are asked to sell their project for monetary gains to the Capitalist world, this is what happens – How pathetic that and where is the world going ? Take a deep breathe and look around.
e) The other way supporting this is: Entropy increases what ever happens. Disorderliness, chaos are a natural phenomenon. The root cause of Disorderliness is Lack of Knowledge. An intellectually strong country with its demographic advantage should be pushed into Ignorance and Knowledge be diluted so that the population is exploited for the business. This seems to be the bigger agenda. I dont see any reason for this project other than this hidden agenda. Whether it is Swine Flu hype, or Gay/lesbian Concepts pushed into India or Giving away Oscars to Indian Media/Movies or this article – I am not able to buy these. Its all stage managed. See the similar pattern again: Unless Indian scientists collaborate with Western scientists, we cannot get such an attention or publications in Nature. Same is the case with Oscars. Unless Indian movies are directed by Western directors, we cannot get Oscars. Come on!!
f) Technologies saturate faster than expected. This is exactly what is happening. Definitely the selling point is NOT the article. It is this ARTICLE creating an entry into every corner of India to BUY the technologies used. NATURE brand will create the necessary selling point for the groups behind. Thats it. But think, do we need these? What is our Goal? Its exploitation.
g) Coming to the concept of CASTE system. India never worked on or enforced any thing on its soil. It has evolved and will be evolving. Evolutionary changes are the most resistant to change or best buffers. Caste was an evolutionary process. Based on the work culture and capabilities to take up a particular challenge at that instance of Society, Indians developed their expertise. Thats it. Now except for political advantage, no body looks for CASTE based events. So Indian society is evolving. Its no big deal. At least not that big a deal that you will enjoy spending millions of dollars to identify the genetic basis of Indian Population. I dont buy if this was the reason. No scientist will invest money, time and intellect to support this reason.
h) Endogamy – whats the big fuss about it. When 3 quarters are surrounded by WATER, one Quarter by Mountains, its obviously Endogamy. It also indicates the contentment the individuals living in India were having all the while since 4000 years say, whatever years.
i) What is ASI/ANI – is there a need for new definitions to be created to prove your point? I dont think so.
j) The sample size is so small that this is NOT worth to be published in a journal like NATURE.
Bottom line: In today's world, Dont get Carried away by publications, spokespersons, value, branding. The challenge now is to come out of illusion by businesses and get to bottom of truth.
if that helps. This is my perception of Today's India.
Thank you
To,
Prasad Burra
(1) Cast system cannot evolve out of nothing. You cannot escape by simply telling that it has evolved by itself. Many sociologists have studied about the social stratification of Indian society.
(2) There are thousands of endogamous groups (casts and sub casts) marrying repeatedly over the years without mixing. Is that enough to have recessive diseases?.
The Hindu social structure is atypical in that it is divided into four varnas according to Rig Veda. The four varnas are Brahman, Rajanya, Vaishya and Sudra. The first three varnas are in the upper layer and constitute just 5% of Hindus and may be called Aryans who isolate themselves wearing a cotton thread called Janyu. The rest of the 95% are Sudras. Tribes and Tribes living out side forests [Dalits] are out side this four varna system and are known as panchama [meaning the fifth] jaatulu [groups]. The Aryan scripture Manu Smriti describes Sudra community as servants [in fact as slaves] to the Brahman and sub divides the Sudras into various castes. The Aryan scriptures are in Sanskrit an Indo European language known only to Aryans and particularly Brahmans [till recently]. Sanskrit is never a language of masses but is a secret language of Aryans.
The cruel moral rule of Aryans prevailed probably since the fall of Harappan Civilization [which is also known as Indus Valley Civilization] till the British entered India. The British rule of India actually restarted the Evolution of Indian Society 1. Modern Science introduced by the British in fact started the biggest social revolution according to Karl Marx. This social revolution was taken to the logical end by Dr. BR Ambedkar. Ambedkar argued that Aryans migrated to India. The recent studies on the genetics of caste in fact support the position of Ambedkar.
The genetic studies on Indian Castes show the genetic similarity of Indian Aryans to Middle Eastern, Central Asian and European populations. This scares the Indian Aryans as they may lose their position as superiors and may be treated as outsiders. As such today, Sudra communities are dominating every sphere of Indian Society. To speak the truth India is under Sudra rule right now. The fear of Aryans is unfounded as Sudras are a tolerant group. Aryans are as good as Anglo Indians, Mappilas, and Parsees etc.
1 Evolution of Indian society.
http://knol.google.com/k/dmr-sekhar/-/3ecxygf1lxcn2/15#edit
To,
Mr. Prasad Burra,
I refuse to agree with you that caste system in India is evolutionary! Manu's caste system was designed for simplified tax purposes and organisation of the society based on profession. It did not prevent the people from social or relational mixing. It later degraded to being wrongly determined by birth and became socially divisive. Therefore the present day caste system absolutely has no social or scientific basis and least of all an evolutionary significance. It is a shame on Indian society.
If I understand correctly Oscars rewards Hollywood movies and have one section for internatianal films. And Slumdog Millionaire is a Hollywood movie and hence it won.
And Gay/lesbian concepts are hardly western and not that they are Indian also. Ever read Kamasutra or visited temples across India?
I do not disagree with the results of this study. Some of it look quite natural, but appear important because of the names of the high-profile institutions and people involved in the study.
What I do not like is getting too far while analyzing the results. Genetic codes are not everything, and there are many other geographical and sociological constructs that no genetic studies can decipher. We should avoid making astronomical conclusions from microscopic analysis.
I do not disagree with the results of this study. Some of it look quite natural, but appear important because of the names of the high-profile institutions and people involved in the study.
What I do not like is getting too far while analyzing the results. Genetic codes are not everything, and there are many other geographical and sociological constructs that no genetic studies can decipher. We should avoid making astronomical conclusions from microscopic analysis.
I do not disagree with the results of this study. Some of it look quite natural, but appear important because of the names of the high-profile institutions and people involved in the study.
What I do not like is getting too far while analyzing the results. Genetic codes are not everything, and there are many other geographical and sociological constructs that no genetic studies can decipher. We should avoid making astronomical conclusions from microscopic analysis.
Upinder Fotadar seems to be living in his imagination thinking that he is a downline of Aryan. Funny when he calls a language which is dead and gone as a living language.
Dravidians are natives of India. Murugan is their God.
Aryans are completely mixed with natives. Aryan blood is foreign!
Sekhar DMR you are 100% correct. Kudos! Keep blogging for the sake of truth!!
Truth triumps!
Let Sudras (95%) rule!
Do not ignore R1a Haplogroup (this is supposedly an Indo-Europian migratory marker)which is found amongst the highest in some groups in India. Many experts speculate that this group originated in India. Thus this study (Indian ancestry revealed) may be illogical and have only long term political objectives.
I don't get what all of the fuss is about. I thought that anybody who looked into the ethnic origins of the Indian people currently living there knows that the Dravidians were there first, and that some "Indo-European" peoples migrated into the subcontinent in a few waves and subsequently mixed with the Dravidians. (I am in complete agreement with Smart Dravidian. Whether they subjugated the Dravidians as a class is not known, and this genome study doesn't answer that question either, because we know that the gene pool of the "slave" or "servant" does get mixed with the people in the society, community or household that have the power. If my memory serves me, there are references to Dravidian religion/culture that were absorbed into the Vedic texts or possibly I'm thinking of some other ancient Hindu texts, so it is possible that the Dravidian culture did regain some of it's status (and power) early on if it was indeed originally a subclass to the Indo Europeans (or Aryans). This study shows that at some point, a genetically homogenous culture introduced or re-introduced a caste system, and we will never know the specific events that led to that. Regardless, this study indicates that since the people in the present day castes are genetically similar, then ideally, there is no inherent racism that can be ideologically exploited by the society or members of the society. There is medical value too, as the endogamous nature of the castes has resulted in populations perfect for study of genes that cause disease.
We Indians tend to go by our own epics. We never heard of Indo-Europeans in India during the period when our epics were compiled. Our epics tell us that the colour of the Aryans ranged from brown to light. Thus according to our own (authentic) history most Indians are Aryans. Besides, Sanskrit is the oldest known surviving Aryan language, thus an Aryan migration Westward is a view which most Indians (rightfully) entertain. While colour is surely not a criterion for a race and variety is a must to make our planet colourful, nevertheless, some Indians are lighter than even the North Europeans and many lighter than Southern Europeans. Thus please keep you criterion for the Aryan Race to yourself. Moreover, the first mention of the Aryan Race is in the Rigveda.
Dr. Upinder Fotadar
"All Indians are pretty similar," says Chris Tyler-Smith, a genome researcher at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute near Cambridge, UK, who was not involved in the study.
True, they are all dumb!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------
Evidence of first Indian settlers found in Tamil Nadu
A team of Indian scientists have discovered genetic evidence that tribal villagers living in Tamil Nadu were among the first migrants from Africa to settle down in India.
Geneticists led by Prof Ramaswamy Pitchappan of Madurai Kamaraj University have found out that the marker gene in the group of people from a small village Jyothimanickam near Madurai matched those of the first settlers in India. The findings point to the fact that the villagers are among the direct descendants of the first settlers.
Pitchappan who conducted the research in collaboration with Oxford Research University found that DNA of Virumandi Andithevar, a 30-year-old systems administrator from the village, matched M130, the chromosome marker, which gives proof that the first human migration into India took place around 70,000 years ago.
"The M130 is the oldest marker in India and there is no other marker older than that for India. The DNA samples from, Virumandi and others were found to have this marker and we were able to deduce that they were among the first human settlers in India, who obviously spread from Africa," Pitchappan who is Prof Emeritus at the Madurai Kamraj University told the Press Trust of Indyaaa!
'Mythology 101: 'India is an ancient country! We are Indians!
No one needs to explain to the French why France should be an independent nation (independent country), and not part of Germany or Britain or some other country. No one needs to explain to the Germans why Germany should be an independent nation, and not part of France or Poland or some other country. No one needs to explain to the Cambodians why Cambodia should be an independent nation, and not part of Vietnam or Laos or some other country. But, alas, it has become necessary to explain why Kashmir, Punjab (Khalistan), Assam, Nagaland, Tamil Nadu etc. should be independent nations (independent countries), and not part of India. This is the result of two centuries of history.
The British conquered the various kingdoms in the Indian subcontinent one by one. Then, for ease of administering (ruling) the conquered territories, the British set up an administrative unit called India. A country or administrative unit called India (or by any other name), comprising of the current territories of India, never existed in all known history, before the British conquest and consolidation.
During the British colonial rule, people of the Indian subcontinent (including those areas now in Pakistan and Bangladesh) had a common purpose and agenda, namely, freedom from British colonial rule. Such a one-ness of purpose never before existed amongst the various peoples of the Indian subcontinent. It brought them together. Finally, in the middle of the 20th century (in the middle 1940s), the British decided to end their rule over the subcontinent. The one-ness of purpose that evolved during the freedom struggle against the British held, with the one exception that most of the Muslim-majority regions in the north became a separate nation called Pakistan at the insistence of the Muslims. Much of the rest of the subcontinent became a country called "India".
India, as a country, by any name, never existed before the British colonial rule in all history, in spite of the oft-repeated false propaganda of the long history, one-ness and unity of India.
Once the British left in 1947, politicians from the Hindi heartland (Hindian politicians) dominated the Indian Parliament and thus control the Indian Government.This resulted in not only the imposition of Hindi as the official language on the non-Hindi speaking peoples of the Indian Union but also in the steady draining of economic resources from much of the rest of India into the Hindi heartland by allocating un-proportionately large amounts of central government funds for infrastructure and industrial development in the Hindi heartland. Other indirect means were also used by the Indian Government to benefit the Hindi heartland economically, at the expense of many non-Hindi states.
O' come all ye faithful...
http://www.sivababa.org/Events/calendar.asp
Myths # 786
http://evolutionofgod.net/videos/
http://www.nobeliefs.com/bumperstickers.htm
Van de Mata Ram!
My Only point was to bring out the fact, whether you guys/gals accept or not, Indians are being exploited or is definitely part of a bigger game plan of the capitalist world. They are under desperation. Mark my words.
Every second you spend on for / against this argument,
there is one Politician and / or an Influential person in India being bought / bribed and to get access to suck every blood cell on the sub-continent.
I still feel we are played like dogs with a bread of piece. This is the bigger picture of this article and the vested interested people of this agenda got what they wanted.
Why can't we prepare for countering that bigger agenda than fighting/arguing such petty issues. Its such a petty issue to discuss, whether you are a brahmin or sudra. We have been exposed to same knowledge for many centuries. The intelligence of every individual in India on average is high and similar when compared to the rest of the world.
Ofcourse , we need not bother much because since every thing is evolutionary. 200 – 250 years of physical slavery brought a revolution. Similarly, after some decades again a group will realize the Mental slavery which we are being pushed into through this cheap tactics today and again another revolution will bring back some new type of freedom for this Country.
This is basically the mis-utilization of the freedom that this country gave to us.
How many of you know that the way and the seriousness with which we argue, not even 1% can argue with such strength. The thought process is itself limited, lack of knowledge.
I only hope we realize our strengths, realize our identity, our +VE nature and move forward rather than these petty arguments.
Why are we falling prey to the concept that "Biology is the last piece of the puzzle". Why not we believe that its just the starting point to unravel the true nature of Human being and relation with other beings. Why such a hype? What for ?
May be you want to look at the following notes I wrote as a blog:
http://parisodhana.com/lifeisbeautiful/blog2.php/2009/08/12/about-skins
The following will eliminate the ignoble caste system from India within one generation.
(1) Do away with arranged marriage. The important goal of arranging marriages is to preserve the caste system. A quick look at matrimonial ads in papers and list of "associations" in the the yellow pages (in a phone book) will show people are practising the caste system inspite of countless political and religious leaders preaching against it for centuries.
Dating is not foreign to Indian culture. Epics in Indian languages describe the love between a girl and a boy before marriage. The ancient text Thirukkural devotes one third of its contents to such love.
(2) Declare that ancient texts extolling the caste system are not suitable for modern India. For example,
this is from Baghvad Gita 4:13
"Chatur varnyam maya shrishtam"
Krishna says I myself created the varnashrama caste system. This is the system that forms the basis for all other divisions.
Posted by R.K. Kittappa, Sept 26, 2009
Dear Upinder Fotadar, Vimla Bhat and Prasad Burra,
I can under stand your jittery response to this piece of research. What worries you? Why do you attribute motives to reputed researchers just because they brought the cat out of the bag which you have been calling a rat since eons! Yes this piece of research will go against those fascist criminals who massacred Muslims and Christians of India in the recent past calling them followers of religions from out side India as those very fascists are proved carrying genes from out side of India. But what is the big deal if you can see human as human? Your opposition to this publication is due to your quixotic fear of being identified as outsider.
But dear see the dangers of maintaining caste based on endogamy as they may lead to genetic diseases/disorders. I am for dissolving the castes by Exogamy. If you don’t follow me your next generations may end up with genetic diseases. See the light instead of blaming the Europeans [from whom we drew the genes] and preaching false nationalism that hates non Hindu Indians.
Linda McCracken, you will never know “this fussâ€unless you know the fuss called Manu Smriti.
Thanks,
DMR Sekhar.
Views of a neutral observer of the debate: From a purely objective point of view one can mention that since the word Aryan is Indian in origin we must also rely on their texts. Also presently genetics is too complicated an area and is still in a primitive state, thus study of a couple of single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) and then reflecting on the purity of a race is absurd. Studies have clearly indicated that even the regulation of the genes of identical twins are dependent on the environment even in a short time frame. Also in no way does it mean that scientists do not have an agenda please do not forget the famous Trofim Denisovich Lysenko. Even many eminent scientists backed his results. Additionally the Hindu first man Manu (the word man probably originates from this) is also found in ancient German mythology as Mannus. One can not ignore such a deep link. I am of the opinion that even after several millennia we might not be able to unravel the origin of races let alone man. We (as inquisitive creatures) must continue in these studies but must also complement our studies with history, language, etc.
Maha Pandit Rahul Sankrityayan's gigantic clissic 'Volga to Ganga' is not mearly a fiction. In 1940 he wrote what is being proved in the above piece of research. Its a hard fact that inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent today are the bioproducts of the native Indians-Dravidians and Aryian tribes of southren europe/central asia. Apart from genetics,Their belief system is also a complete mix. Worship of the natural poweres on the one side and idol worship on the other in today's Hinduism is not a coincidence !
India, as a country, by any name, never existed before the British colonial rule in all history, in spite of the oft-repeated false propaganda of the long history, one-ness and unity of India.
Manu, by saying what you said above, it indicates that you are a severely disoriented individual when it comes to historical 2020.
Ever read references to Maha Bharata among other Indian mythology. The British and other seafarers did not set sail to visit Pakistan nor independent kingdoms as you reference it. Before the British arrived, the Indian border or English namesake did not exist. But, in essence, India (Bharat) did.
Your historical vision is detracted with cataract like arguments.
You must not be aware, that early England as nation was built by invaders and centuries of conquest. No wonder they sail to do the same.
Dear chris , is it mandatory that a nation which is invaded should do the same to others? what is the logic in that or you trying to tell the same invaders sailed to India.Your statements are very confusing .
Nobody ever mentions the chance for genetic mix up among the ancient settlers in India. There may have been systems to marry from other communities existent since it is a known fact that Polygamy existed in the past. There is also a chance of polyandry. Then there is a typical example when you look to the southern most state of India, Kerala, there the Bhramins used to have 'sambandhas' with Nair women, is this a chance for genetic mixup. I am sure that Dr. Thankaraj is interested in this case and he will come up with a report on similar lines in the near future. There are also chances of upper class people or people with more muscle power to "mate" with the opressed and have a lineage therein, but this is an issue outside the context of marriage and something that is never talked about. It is very well supported that the founder populations that settled in India were small ones and these issues may have occured. The writers or preachers, to the best of my knowledge the epics were transferred to the next generations as songs and through stories before it got a stable form as text. So there are chances that these things are not mentioned.
There are Dravidians and Aryans and these two groups were small founder populations in the begining. The case of Mahabratha war between Pandavas and Kauravas was one of the biggest ones but if the number of elephants and horses mentioned in the text is true then seriously India was a land with more number of elephants and horses than ever expected to have lived on earth. So there are flaws in the epics texts because they were the versions that were inscribed after many generations of transmission as songs and stories through mouth to mouth transmission mode.
Genetics is true until this day and this study establishes that the founder population was very small.
What Indians must rejoice about is their cultural diversity and that India is the best country for Human beings to survive which is exemplified by its population number.
Erratum:
The words "The writers or preachers," are not needed in the second last sentence of the first paragraph.
The caste system in India
Lot of discussion is going on in response to the interesting article on genetics of Indian population.all historical evidence point to the fact that the Aryan and Dravidian are indigenous population of Indian subcontinent. I suggest that in all human societies people can in principle be divided broadly in to four groups as happened in the Indian 4 caste based society. In India the basic four castes are not based on genetics but based on assigning to each caste Guna karma (characteristic action of a group) or a combination of two guna karmas. Those who possess mostly Sathvic guna karma are Brahmins, those who possess mostly Rajasvic guna karma as Kshatrias, those who possess mostly Tamo guna karma as Sudras, and those who possess mostly mixed guna karmas of Rajsvic and Tamo gunas as vysayas or the merchant class. The individuals in these groups are by their bodily nature are restricted /bound to act in their characteristic ways. This is clearly expressed in a shloka in Bhagavad gita which states
“Sathvarajastama iti gunaha prkruti sambhavaha-------------“and
“Chaturvarnyam maya shrustam guna karma vibhagasa-------- “
The only difference in the Indian society different from the rest of the human societies is that these individual groups( castes) in course of their long history were stratified/frozen by endogamy and by selfish economic and political reasons and their characteristics both physical and mental traits are thus sharply displayed. Such stratification was fortunately avoided in other human societies by vigorous exogamy.
ramaiah.a